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The Terf Turf “Discussion”

one is redundant, the others; communication skill

1 A cunning linguist is an individual who is skilled at communicating and orally speaking

2 A cunning linguist is an individual who is skilled at communicating and oral

3 lesbian

Heteros who insult, assault, rape and murder LGBTQ2 and also hetero women, btw, are the ones who are phobic.

Not being attracted to is not the same as being a bigot.

this is phobia.

not dating people from other letter groups is not phobic.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/05/14/oregon-house-representatives-lgbt-gay-trans-panic-defence/Ban on abhorrent gay and trans panic defence unanimously passed by OregonThe Oregon House of Representatives unanimously passed a measure that bans the gay and trans panic defence in legal proceedings.www.pinknews.co.uk

Hetero men who name called when refused dates are bad behaviour and any women who denies lesbians or any person a no on a date – which is a personal choice, and not a human rights issue – is part of the problem of dating.

to each person preference of desire and to the choice of sexual selection and intimate relations

Lesbians helped heterowomen get reproductive and workplace rights and then they went off and enjoyed those… then there was AIDs….. and now… this:

*article quotes*

However, our findings throw up several questions:

Who is on the wrong side of history when the GBT community operates a large-scale gaslighting of lesbians to accept the mantra that “trans women are women”; penises are deemed to be a female organ; and heterosexual intercourse is now redefined as a lesbian sexual practice?
Who is on the wrong side of history when the GBT community uncritically supports a population of transwomen who identify as lesbians to coerce lesbians into having sex with transwomen against their will?
Who is on the wrong side of history when lesbians’ sexual boundaries are disrespected and publicly demonised as hateful by the very charities whose purpose it is to defend them?
Who are the GBT organisations protecting by refusing to engage with lesbians’ very serious concerns?
Major gay, bisexual and trans organisations such as Stonewall and Pride in London should hang their heads in shame for ignoring our rights.

https://news.trust.org/item/20190412100802-6md1q/Lesbians need to get the L out of the LGBT+ communityLesbians are being callednews.trust.org

stop demanding dating as a condition of human rights support

that has to go both ways and to deny a no is to deny rights

lesbians do not expect their lesbian partners to be pregant and if the partner is a transwoman, it is very foolish to expect a lesbian to be sad she cannot get a transwoman pregnant. when the pregancy risk is the other way.

lesbian and gay sex is not procreative sex and that is part of it’s appeal and attraction.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/cisgender-lesbians-and-trans-women-how-to-mend-the-rift.htmlCisgender lesbians and trans women: How to mend the rift.In theory, our multifaceted, multilettered queer community is all about alliance, solidarity, and mutual support. Though we’ve seen advances in areas…slate.com

https://watermarkonline.com/tag/lesbian-erasure/Lesbian Erasure Archives – Watermark Onlinewatermarkonline.com

Generational change is inevitable, healthy, and necessary to progress. What I am living through right now is a painful transitional moment in which some of those older lesbian institutions are still going strong, and seeking participation and funding, while a current generation of activists are distancing themselves from such events, or even demonstrating against them. Younger, queer activists were vocal in opposing the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival; right-wing religious groups once eager to shut the festival down had moved on to bigger targets. This dynamic—a next generation of feminists attacking earlier lesbian institutions and disparaging their participants as less evolved—is not unique to the 21st century or the United States; it is embedded in Jill Gardiner’s powerful book From the Closet to the Screen, which describes a 1970–71 Gay Liberation Front “zap” against London’s Gateways Club bar. As this generational shift grinds on, how should the most recent decades of cultural production be interpreted, understood, and preserved? How will we use the tools of history to examine something we know existed as an investigable community?

https://slate.com/human-interest/2016/12/disappearing-lesbians-and-the-need-to-preserve-dyke-culture.htmlDisappearing lesbians and the need to preserve dyke culture.My generation of lesbian activists, who honed our identity politics and confronted racism and classism in the spaces of women’s music events and…slate.com

dear bi, pan and trans women

sometimes bisexual is a portion of a woman’s life and she later lesbians and maybe call me then, see if I am available.

sometimes a person is attracted to a person because they are unclear on their own self and what they are attracted to, that personality of a sexuality and gender person.

so when bisexual women end up with men or are a phase but are not a phase. it is as exhausting as men who say they are women and then dress like women and surgically mutilate their bodies. still not women and do not define lesbian words.

i am attracted to vagina and not interested in a penis or a reverse penis hole that lacks a gspot or cervix and a woman around it.

meanwhile. bisexual and pan women and transwomen are able to date each other, without lesbians having to date outside of our group preference arising from our individual choices and preferences.

I am a lesbian, the word is gender and sexuality in one, seeking the same expression in another lesbian.

Lesbian erasure is the tendency to ignore, remove, falsify, or reexplain evidence of lesbian women or relationships in history, academia, the news media, and other primary sources.

Lesbians may also be ignored within the LGBT community and their identity may not be acknowledged

attraction to someone is not done by debate or framework

it is a physical response and an emotional reaction to the personality

lesbians have no reason to be made to feel that they have to date any person, trans or not and no one should deny anyone a no

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian_erasureLesbian erasure – Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org

women are being erased in the medial sphere and in LGBTQ

the words mean specific things and transwomen do not represent the women experience

transwomen are using the same male gaslighting behaviours and then accusing women of anger

when transwomen are getting women’s awards and being positioned as role models

while complaining about the cotton ceiling and fetisizing lesbians

and using the hetero male murdering them as a sympathy ploy

while not dating bisexuals who potentially have attraction to

https://epgn.com/2021/03/10/lesbian-erasure-a-footnote-to-womens-history-month/Lesbian Erasure: A Footnote to Women’s History Month — Philadelphia Gay NewsWomen’s History Month often seems like Erasure of Lesbians Month. Many critically important women in American history past and present were lesbians: Susan B. Anthony, Jane Addams, Dr. Alice Hamilton, Dr. Emily Blackwell, Dr. Sara Josephine Baker, Rachel Carson, Dr. Sally Ride, Barbara Jordan, Pauli Murray, Dr. Ruth Gates, Patrisse Cullors and so many others. […]Show Moreepgn.com

meanwhile

every person gets a yes or not, without a value judgement

https://emjaymurphee.medium.com/why-gay-men-wont-date-trans-men-a6daf1bbd51aWhy (Some) Gay Men Won’t Date TransmenTransphobia doesn’t quite explain itemjaymurphee.medium.com


Gay, bisexual, and queer trans men navigating sexual fieldshttps://journals.sagepub.com › doi › pdf
by AI Scheim · 2019 · Cited by 15 — Trans men are individuals assigned a female sex at birth but who identify as male or masculine. Sexualities. 2019, Vol. 22(4) 566–586 ! The Author(s) 2017. Article …
Sexual Health of Trans Men Who Are Gay, Bisexual, or Who …https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › …
by GR Bauer · 2013 · Cited by 72 — Recent reports have addressed the sexual health of female-to-male transgender or transsexual people who are gay, bisexual, and/or have sex with men (trans …


Primed²: A Sex Guide for Trans Men into Men | CATIE …https://www.catie.ca › resources › primed-sex-guide-tra..

It contains important information about staying sexually, mentally and emotionally safe and healthy. Primed was originally published in 2007 and updated in 2015.
16 Things I Learned From Having Sex With Trans Menhttps://www.advocate.com › sexy-beast › 16-things-i-le…

comments from mewe:

Alex C

I don’t like this modern trend in the community where some are calling others bigots or trsnsphobes for being attracted to just one set of genitals and not the other. I’m sorry, but we aren’t all pansexual or bisexual. Sexual attraction is not just about gender as many would have you believe. It’s also about biological sex and always has been, whether we like it or not. It isn’t fair to label someone a bigot or judge their character for their sexual attractions. Sexual attraction is NOT a choice and never has been. That is a fact that seems to be lost on more and more people in the community these days.

nina
yes. exactly. people with a wider range of attraction do need to stop calling monosexuals bigots for gay or lesbian sexuality.

and there is no reason to be sorry or that canadian as to say it to soften the view you are legit able to hold and express. and that is legit on the face of it

and the idea of removing biology from understanding people is also very bizarre, especially given dating is sexual selection and not a human rights issue.

name calling just validates a no on dating, as it is a major red flag on what a relationship would be. Dating is about attraction to and is selecting for sexual activity and as such, is a personal choice that everyone has a yes or no on, without threat of name calling, assault, rape or murder. Being rejected as a date is not a human rights complaint.

Alex C

Yeah, removing biology is a good way to put it. Some are 100% pan and 0% concerned with any biology or anatomy, and good for them, but we aren’t all like that. I can’t pretend to be pansexual to make that community happy, that would be like asking a straight person to pretend to be gay, and calling them a bigot for not being gay attracted. That’s absurd, and I hope this trend doesn’t stick or it will be very unhealthy for the community.

As a cis gay man I’ve always found the prospect of gay trans men interesting. I sometimes find myself attracted to trans men. Most that I’ve met in person seem to be interested in women though.

nina

I do not use the term cis, it has too many problems with the sissy slur and copting from black culture sounding like sis and. your identity is in your world experience. not other people’s who need other words to make sense of themself.

it is hard to have a conference on women and exclude mensuration, abortion/pregnancy and, menopause as panels and discussion/information.

nor should anyone pretend to be attracted to who they are not or use a label to avoid being name called.

bisexuals vs pansexual is a horrible debate too, bisexual being binary attraction and pan being beyond binary should be a compromise

Alex C

I personally don’t like the term pansexual because in fact there are NOT a panorama of sexes. There are 2 biological sexes, and in rare cases intersex. Pansexual refers to an attraction to multiple genders, and gender is a distinct concept from biological sex, so they really should describe that differently and not fight with people who are bisexual.

nina

bi vs pan is not about either one of those, it is about transgender. and it is about making gender something in a person’s mind and that is kinda like having to respect a person’s religion when you are an atheist.

once you reject the idea that there is only one hetero way to be either gender, it is not hard to realize there are many ways to be. personality and character is not limited to sexuality/gender and for lesbians there is one word that includes both, given faggot was not reclaimed by gay men.

Alex C

Gender is a social construct and a personal issue. I don’t like when people misuse science and try to say that science proves anything about gender. It doesn’t. Science only proves biological sex, and shows there’s a spectrum of hormonal balances, brain chemistry and neurological patterns that usually correspond to one biological sex but don’t always, and many people (including me) exist somewhere on that spectrum. We’re just getting caught up in stupid labels with all this infighting about what is factual and what isn’t, and who is “woke” and who isn’t. The science is very clear.

nina

how gender is represented and expected is a cultural concept that does vary, but that people have a gender is biology. I agree – it is also like religion vs biology, when biology says nothing about religion, and anthropology puts religion in it’s cultural place.

academics, medical, legal and then average people understanding differs across jargon specific vs casual use of language – and then are the agenda activists.

MEANWHILE:

everyone is one person and not any or all others.

“all identities simultaneously” – anyone else wondering how self loathing is driving this?

The film depicts Wagemans making the prototype for a futuristic mask, a piece of hackable body equipment that would incorporate software and could conceptually queer the notion of identity. “The story Samuel created is about documenting the making of a mask that is a fictive hacked nano-tech transhuman prototype that connects a global network of queer people who reject the mainstream appetite for immortality, super-intelligence, and well-being,” she told Dazed. “An object that you could take off and allows any uncensored software to be installed like scrambled identity – becoming all identities simultaneously.”

https://www.dazeddigital.com/art-photography/article/52776/1/artist-esmay-wagemans-creates-technology-for-the-future-queer-bodyArtist Esmay Wagemans creates technology for the future queer body | DazedThe science fiction artist envisions how biotech and technological enhancements may further the cause of queer liberation, for Samuel Douek’s short film STONEWALL 2069www.dazeddigital.com

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International Women’s Day 2021

March 8, 1907

A women’s suffrage bill was rejected by the British House of Commons.

March 8, 1910

The King of Spain gave authorization for women to attend universities.

march 8, 1917

Rioting and strikes during International Women’s Day protests in St. Petersburg signaled the beginning of Russia’s “February Revolution,” so named because of Russia’s use of the Julian calendar.

1963

25,000 people attended the funeral for Country singer Patsy Cline, killed three days earlier in a plane crash near Camden, Tennessee.

1974

Adrienne Potts, Pat Murphy, Sue Wells and Heather Byers were accused of instigating a “lesbian riot” in 1974 in Toronto pub the Brunswick House.

After getting some aggressive and unwelcome attention from male patrons of the bar, the ladies decided they’d had enough and took to the stage as part of the venue’s open mic night, singing a parody of the Rodgers and Hammerstein classic “I Enjoy Being a Girl”:

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‘Cause I’m gay and I’m proud and I’m angry/

And I enjoy being a dyke!”

https://yohomo.ca/blog/interntional-womens-day-brunswick-four

see also:

https://www.anothermag.com/art-photography/13118/jebs-eye-to-eye-portraits-of-lesbians-book-interview-2021JEB’s Radical Portraits of Lesbian Life and Love in the 1970s | AnOtherThe American photographer’s intimate images – featuring lesbians of all ages, races and backgrounds – are a vital document of LGBTQ+ historywww.anothermag.com

March 8, 1975

1975 Icelandic women’s strike – Wikipedia

celebrating International Women’s day 2012 with a 1975 remembrance

women, including the president Vigdis Finboggadottir did not go to work

it shut the entire country down.

#SufferingSuffragettes

https://icelandmag.is/article/1975-womens-strike-when-90-icelandic-women-went-strike-protest-gender-inequalityThe 1975 Women’s Strike: When 90% of Icelandic women went on strike to protest gender inequality | IcelandmagOn October 24 1974, Icelandic women observed what was called Kvennafrídagurinn, (The Women’s Day Off), known outside Iceland as the Icelandic Women’s Strike. It was estimated that at least 90% of Icelandic women participated by not going to work and by doing no housework. An estimated 25,000 women gathered for mass a demonstration in downtown Reykjavík. The total population oficelandmag.is

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34602822The day Iceland’s women went on strike – BBC NewsIn 1975, the women of Iceland took a “day off” from their usual jobs – and relations between Icelandic men and women were never quite the same again.www.bbc.com

https://kvenrettindafelag.is/en/resources/womens-day-off/Women’s Day Off – Kvenréttindafélag ÍslandsWomen in Iceland have gone on a strike six times to protest gender inequality and the gender pay gap. On October 24th, 1975, 90% of women in Iceland left work, to demonstrate the importance of women‘s contribution to society. This day was popularly called “kvennafrí”, or Women’s Day Off. In 1985, 25.000 women left their […]kvenrettindafelag.is


Olivia Newton-John‘s “Have You Never Been Mellow” becomes her second Billboard number one record.

lesbians helped hetero women win work and abortion rights,

then… lesbians helped with the aids crisis…..

https://daily.jstor.org/how-now-started-standing-up-for-lesbians/How NOW Started Standing Up for Lesbians | JSTOR DailyIf it had been up to national leaders alone, it might have taken much longer.daily.jstor.org

1990

Cher won the worst dressed female, and worst video for ‘If I Could Turn Back Time’, in The Rolling Stone Magazine’s awards

1992

Annette Funicello revealed that she had multiple sclerosis. She died of the disease in 2013.

1997

The Spice Girls told us what we really, really want–“Wannabe” at #1 for the third week.

2008

China was set to impose stricter rules on foreign pop stars after Bjork caused controversy by shouting “Tibet, Tibet” at a Shanghai concert after a powerful performance of her song Declare Independence. Talk of Tibetan independence was considered taboo in China, which had ruled the territory since 1951. A spokesperson from the culture ministry said Bjork would be banned from performing in China if there was a repeat performance.

2017

Pussyhat – Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Pussyhat

pussyhat is a pink, crafted hat, created in large numbers by thousands of participants involved with the United States 2017 Women’s March. They are the result …

Protest Design: The Origin Story Of The Pussyhat – Bustlewww.bustle.com › protest-design-the-origin-story-of-th..

Mar. 7, 2020 — Wielding homemade placards, many thousands of the Women’s March protesters wore pink wooly hats – on the day of the protests, the packed …
Pussyhat – The Pussyhat’s Identity Crisis – SAPIENSwww.sapiens.org › biology › pussyhat-identity-crisi

Jan. 17, 2019 — January 2019 marks the second anniversary of the Women’s March—a protest that arose in response to then U.S. presidential candidate …

2018

Pink pussyhats: The reason feminists are ditching themwww.freep.com › story › news › 2018/01/10 › pink-pu…

Jan. 10, 2018 — The reason: The sentiment that the pink pussyhat excludes and is offensive to transgender women and gender nonbinary people who don’t have …
Stop Wearing Those Pussy Hats To Women’s Marches – Why …www.seventeen.com › life › stop-wearing-pussy-hats-w…

Misogyny could become hate crime as legal review is … – BBCwww.bbc.com › news › uk-politics-45423789

Sep. 6, 2018 — The move comes in response to MP Stella Creasy’s call for tougher sentences for upskirting crimes.

2019

Jan. 18, 2019 — Jan 18, 2019. You couldn’t attend a rally or protest in 2018 without stumbling upon a sea of pink knit caps colloquially known as pussy hats —and the Women’s March is no exception.


Opinion: Violent misogyny is a threat to half our population …www.theglobeandmail.com › opinion › article-violent-…

Nov. 30, 2019 — The Montreal massacre of 1989 was just one in a long line of mass killings motivated by hatred of women. What would happen, and how many …

2020


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Aug. 7, 2020 — … people in the United States has passed a grim milestone. In just … of violence is particularly pronounced for Black and Latina trans women.

2021


Honouring women of the world on International Women’s Day

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Meghan, 39, admitted that she was naive at the start of her relationship with Harry and unprepared for the strictures of royal life.

The former television star, who is biracial, said that when she was pregnant with son Archie, there were “concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he’s born.”

Harry confirmed the conversation, saying: “I was a bit shocked.” He said he would not reveal who made the comment, though Winfrey said he told her it was not either of his grandparents, Queen Elizabeth or her husband, Prince Philip.

In the U.S., where Harry and Meghan now live, White House spokesperson Jen Psaki was asked whether President Joe Biden and his wife Jill had any reaction to the interview.

Psaki said Meghan’s decision to speak about her struggles with mental health “takes courage” and “that’s certainly something the president believes in.”

But she said she wouldn’t offer additional comment on the situation “given these are private citizens, sharing their own story and their own struggles.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/harry-meghan-oprah-interview-reaction-1.5940964Boris Johnson, royal watchers react following revealing Harry and Meghan interview | CBC NewsBritain and its royal family absorbed the tremors Monday from a sensational television interview with Prince Harry and Meghan, in which the couple said they encountered racist attitudes and a lack of support that drove the duchess to thoughts of suicide.www.cbc.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/what-s-the-future-of-the-monarchy-in-canada-1.5938373/barbados-is-severing-ties-with-the-queen-should-canada-follow-suit-1.5940312Barbados is severing ties with the Queen. Should Canada follow suit? | CBC RadioJulie Payette’s resignation as governor general has renewed questions about Canada’s connection to the British monarchy. While Barbados has announced their plans to sever ties, experts warn it may be more difficult for Canada to do the same.www.cbc.ca

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/kelly-mcparland-for-sajjan-zero-tolerance-doesnt-mean-zeroKelly McParland: For Sajjan, zero tolerance doesn’t mean zero | National PostThe less he knew, the less he’d be involved, the less he’d have to do and the less he might be blamednationalpost.com

last century and a good explanation of why and how society is fucked up

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/oak-ridge-st-thomas-psychiatric-treatmentWhat happens when you turn a psychopath into a therapist? | CBC NewsDr. Elliott T. Barker was a newly minted psychiatrist in the mid-1960s when he came up with a novel treatment for curing psychopaths: Patients would treat patients. New information uncovered by The Fifth Estate reveals that others took that ill-conceived idea one step further, having convicted sex offenders serve as therapists to women with mental illness.Show Morenewsinteractives.cbc.ca

nurturing or neutering words defining a gender’s spectrum

The company had said it would use the term “womxn” in order to be more gender neutral in its language.

But LGBT communities online called the change transphobic because it suggested trans women were not women.

“We’re committed to growing from these experiences… and ensuring we’re inclusive to all,” the company tweeted.

“Womxn” has become a popular alternative word for people who say that the term “women” has patriarchal roots. Some believe the term is inclusive of trans women and some non-binary people, but that is contested.

It echoes the use of the word “Latinx” in some Spanish-speaking communities in an attempt to move away from the traditional use of genders in the language.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56251452

this queer blogger adds:

not entirely, there was in the 1990s the spellings

womym and wimmim as the plural

these were excluding transwomen

so womxn is an attempt to have a word that includes heteronormative to transwomen

and some nonbinary persons

of woman, women which have the words man and men in them

meanwhile y and x.. y is the male gene and x the female

so.. a word is crafted to mean the opposite of the spelling

context and references

Intro to Naughty Nineties Dyke Mentoring

The 1990s was the Decade before 9/11 changed the sense of the world, before AIDS was a chronically manageable condition for parts of the world; and it changed the balance of the generational birth rate.

Generation X was the sandwich generation and the adult children of alcoholics, and we were a smaller at birth demographic and our numbers reduced further by AIDS.

For lesbians, it was the Post Butch Femme, we had worked with Heterosexual women from the 1960s and 1970s to achieve the legislated equal pay for equal work and with that, the ability to form our own credit rating not dependent on a father or husband to co-sign, and reproductive rights.

From the women’s movement, we shifted into AIDs support and caretaking as the gay men were the ones affording health care so the virus could be identified, being a slower killer than other viruses out of Africa in the era, with Ebola killing withing 24 hours usually and only in 2019 is there a vaccine for that.

We were no longer butch and femme mimicking heterosexuals, we were Dykes and we were getting things dyke done with respect to human rights across demographics.

In the 1990s, the Gay and Lesbian community presented to the mainstream a Just Like You, Just Happen to be Queer – we were Act Up, Queer Nation and Lesbian Avengers and fighting to serve in the Military and Marriage Equality at the same time.

In Canada, at the Supreme Court, it was Joshusa Birch who won the right for gays and lesbians to serve in the military, while Egan and Nesbitt won survivor benefits, Brian Mossop lead the way for Federal Government queer employees to have equal benefits and it was a group of couples who won marriage equality – not same sex marriage as the phrase in the media was to ensure the disgust reaction of the anal sex imagery or same gender marriage as the community tried to adjust for value judgement language, it was before the court and under the law – marriage equality in 2003.

From 1980 to 2004, Angles was the Vancouver queer paper – for most of it’s run “Gay and Lesbian” to a final era of “Lesbian Bisexual and Gay” to “LGBT” by 2004. with 2019, the Canadian term LGBTQ2 – adding Queer which is a comprehensive and inclusive word of all sexuality including asexual and Two Spirited, from the ingenious culture inclusive of transgender and nonbinary as genderfluidity to the spectrum of sexuality, what we are and what we are attracted to.

This blog and this presentation was prepared by Nina Tryggvason, former news editor, news and arts writer and photographer.

the vancouver lesbian avengers circa 1992

for a while the Toronto paper – Xtra, which began in the late 1970s and peaked in the early 1990s with Xtra in Toronto, Xtra West in Vancouver, Island Xtra on Vancovuer Island, Calgary Xtra in Albert and Capital Xtra in Ottawa is in this era. http://www.dailyxtra.com.

I left Angles and wrote for Xtra West for a short while.

and also, for an American Lesbian Magazine Girlfriends about the 1990s lesbian cancer scare that ended the Lesbian Chic of kd lang, Melissa Etheridge and Ellen coming out.

the 1990s was the era when the public found out about the Germany WW2 camps where the allies did not free everone, they left the queer prisoners in prison.

It was the decade of the end of the closet language, where it was the political that was personal. instead of in this era, when pronouns are personal; and talking points which had bullets are replaced with bullets and cars into crowds with protest signs are deemed speech issues rather than the crimes of the state or by the individual who confuses their religious viewpoint with the secualar law and fails to understand that rights are extended and not demanded, and are not to be denied when asserted, the right to exist trumps the right to complain that others do.

#Lest We Forget is an admonishment to not be a bystander.

Not inside the LGBTQ2 comunity or outside in the mainstream.

After all, we as a species continue to demonstrate, the minority needs protection because the majority cannot be trusted to be fair in the first place.

Nina Tryggvason

2019 – Naughty Ninties Queer Dyke Media Intro.